I cannot get enough of the old Novus Ordo Mass (English Mass). By and large I think the recent changes in the Mass are not positive. In the old Novus Ordo Mass they used to say "[Christ] will come again in glory." In the new Novus Ordo it says the flat "Christ will come again." Really, how will he come, my heart cries. Is he taking a Greyhound or will he come with the angels?
Peace Be With You....And With Your Spirit
This also leaves me flat. So you do not care about my body? Only my spirit matters to you? Well that is contrary to the Catholic Faith about the image of God being secondarily in the body? We do not need to relegate that truth.
Singing the Lamb of God in Latin
I do not think about myself in this, because I understand the Latin. However, many people do not. The Mass is a tool of evangelism, not just for Catholics. Again, you are cutting people off from the meaning, because the Mass is a public event, not a private one. It is for all those who wish to attend. There have been several converts who just sat at the mass and learned about the faith that way. Many of them later converted, but it took time.
In Praise of the (Old) Novus Ordo
With the subtlety and mystical orientation of the old Novus Ordo, it is more conducive to me to contemplation than the new Norvus Ordo. What a beautiful time we had with the old Novus Ordo. I miss it dearly.
Showing posts with label Novus Ordo. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Novus Ordo. Show all posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013
Monday, December 12, 2011
Latin Mass Onliers
A schismatic tendency in Latin Mass Onliers has been a denigration of the Vernacular Mass. They present this argument as if it is objectively true that the Latin Mass is superior to the Novus Ordo. They get snarky, as one canon lawyer contemplated about himself, about the Latin Mass, as if it is obviously better.
This is fundamental disobedience. As the canon lawyer in this link, stated, as quoted by Fr. Z., the bishop can issue a decree forbidding the Latin Mass. However, even though he has recourse to the Congregation for Divine Worship, he has to stop the Mass (my comment). If he wins his recourse, he can continue it. This shows the Latin Mass is not objectively superior, since they Church would never stop such a good.
Moral Law
Unlike Canon Law, which in most part can be changed, Moral Law cannot. We are always obligated to follow the Moral Law (including the Ten Commandments) even should our death be the result. If this were true about the Latin Mass, we would be obliged to always attend it regardless of the circumstances or a bishops' decree.
As attributed, this Canonist says:
Extremism
Of course, these are extreme examples of disobedience of Vatican Norms. However, they are very present, and people are being unduly influenced by them.
If this is the disobedience that the Latin Mass brings about in people, perhaps we should be done with it [ficetiously said]. We should abandon the Latin Mass because it causes disobedience [more facetiousness].
Or perhaps, we should respect the laity's desire to hear the Mass in their own language. Jesus did with his first Mass.
This is fundamental disobedience. As the canon lawyer in this link, stated, as quoted by Fr. Z., the bishop can issue a decree forbidding the Latin Mass. However, even though he has recourse to the Congregation for Divine Worship, he has to stop the Mass (my comment). If he wins his recourse, he can continue it. This shows the Latin Mass is not objectively superior, since they Church would never stop such a good.
Moral Law
Unlike Canon Law, which in most part can be changed, Moral Law cannot. We are always obligated to follow the Moral Law (including the Ten Commandments) even should our death be the result. If this were true about the Latin Mass, we would be obliged to always attend it regardless of the circumstances or a bishops' decree.
As attributed, this Canonist says:
Perhaps at 3:00 p.m. [sic] in the afternoon, in a sidel chapel, after the heat in the church ahs been turned off, and while a janitor is cleaning the rest of the church with a loud buffer. (a bit too snarky?) [sic]Yes, very snarky. Yet, a Bishop's Conference is obliged to consider:
The pastoral care of the faithful requires from every bishops' conference that their physical health is also taken into account (Pontifical Council for Pastoral Care Migrants and Intinerant Peoples).The canonist above would not care for their physical health. What about the elderly? So Fr. Z. and the canonist would have the elderly suffering during Mass, possibly get pneumonia, since they want to attend the Mass in English. This, of course would be a violation of papal teaching against the fourth commandment (i.e. doing harm).
Extremism
Of course, these are extreme examples of disobedience of Vatican Norms. However, they are very present, and people are being unduly influenced by them.
If this is the disobedience that the Latin Mass brings about in people, perhaps we should be done with it [ficetiously said]. We should abandon the Latin Mass because it causes disobedience [more facetiousness].
Or perhaps, we should respect the laity's desire to hear the Mass in their own language. Jesus did with his first Mass.
Monday, November 28, 2011
The Beauty of the Norvus Ordo
Much ado has been made by Traditionalists about the words of the Mass; "...and be with your Spirit," "It will be shed for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins…”
These are more accurate and precise meanings, the traditionalists say. Some infer, that the changes in the Mass led to the corruption of souls.
Much Ado About Nothing?
While it is true that a more precise translation it useful, there is another problem. The Traditionalists argue a more exact translation will make Catholics more Orthodox in their belief. Some even argue they will be more faithful Catholics. However, the statistics do not really bear this out. Mass attendance was at about 45%, in the United States, before Vatican II. Currently it is about 45% (after going above 60% after Vatican II).
In other Countries, Mass attendance has risen, including in Brazil. These Countries have the Novus Ordo (Mass in their native languages).
And Be With Your Spirit
While the new changes say "be with your spirit" the priest himself says "the Lord by with you." What is the point of "be with your spirit?" Is it to emphasize the primacy of the soul in Salvation? If this is the case, fine.
Are we also saying to the minister that we do not care about the welfare of his body? This is not fine. I will not belabor this point, however.
For Many
The phrase "will be shed for many, in the Greek ("sozo") can also mean "some" or "all." So the Greek language does not make a big deal about the translation.
It is a more faithful translation to the Latin, but the Greek, in which language we have the New Testament written, makes no such distinction. This seems a bit of a moot point to me.
Sure, be faithful to the Latin. However, know the Greek does not support scrupulosity.
The Beauty of the Novus Ordo
Several major apologists and theologians have been converted by the Novus Ordo Mass, including Scott Hahn. Scott attended a Novus Ordo Mass and saw (through the use of the English language) how the Mass is Scripture from beginning to end. If the Mass was in Latin, this would not have been possible unless Scott was fluent in Latin.
The First Mass
The first mass was in a common language of the Jewish people - Hebrew. First Century Jews in Palestine, celebrated Jewish ceremonies in Hebrew. Thus it is most likely that the first Mass was spoken in Hebrew. Hebrew was the English of its day in Israel, it was a common tongue.
Now, some traditionalists think that there is a magical power to Latin. I do not say this facetiously, however. They have attributed to Latin almost god-like powers. They say things such as: Ending the latin Mass caused the corruption of the Church, The Church was not ready for the changes, the changes were not natural, etc.
So the changes are now natural? After 40 years of the Novus Ordo we are to revert back to Latin?
I am sure this is what the traditionalists want.
Disobedience, Disobedience, Disobedience
I have talked to many people, including relatives, who would not attend Mass in the 90s because it was not in latin. Many people have been away from the Catholic Church for decades because of this. Mel Gibson is a person who is a Latin Mass onlier. As if the words in Latin alone, will save anyone.
This is, in large part, why we have the indult Latin Mass. Because Catholics have their affectations they may put before Christ. It seems sometimes Latin is their God, not the Hebrew-ceremony-performing Christ.
Obedience, Obedience, Obedience
Regardless of the translation, obedience to the current form of the Mass is paramount. Your heart is tested by your obedience. You desire what is good, when you have holiness within you. You desire what is bad, when you have sin dwelling within. Are you obedient, regardless?
Questions for Consideration:
+Blessed by the Lord, in his angels, Novus Ordo Mass, Latin Mass and his Saints.
These are more accurate and precise meanings, the traditionalists say. Some infer, that the changes in the Mass led to the corruption of souls.
Much Ado About Nothing?
While it is true that a more precise translation it useful, there is another problem. The Traditionalists argue a more exact translation will make Catholics more Orthodox in their belief. Some even argue they will be more faithful Catholics. However, the statistics do not really bear this out. Mass attendance was at about 45%, in the United States, before Vatican II. Currently it is about 45% (after going above 60% after Vatican II).
In other Countries, Mass attendance has risen, including in Brazil. These Countries have the Novus Ordo (Mass in their native languages).
And Be With Your Spirit
While the new changes say "be with your spirit" the priest himself says "the Lord by with you." What is the point of "be with your spirit?" Is it to emphasize the primacy of the soul in Salvation? If this is the case, fine.
Are we also saying to the minister that we do not care about the welfare of his body? This is not fine. I will not belabor this point, however.
For Many
The phrase "will be shed for many, in the Greek ("sozo") can also mean "some" or "all." So the Greek language does not make a big deal about the translation.
It is a more faithful translation to the Latin, but the Greek, in which language we have the New Testament written, makes no such distinction. This seems a bit of a moot point to me.
Sure, be faithful to the Latin. However, know the Greek does not support scrupulosity.
The Beauty of the Novus Ordo
Several major apologists and theologians have been converted by the Novus Ordo Mass, including Scott Hahn. Scott attended a Novus Ordo Mass and saw (through the use of the English language) how the Mass is Scripture from beginning to end. If the Mass was in Latin, this would not have been possible unless Scott was fluent in Latin.
The First Mass
The first mass was in a common language of the Jewish people - Hebrew. First Century Jews in Palestine, celebrated Jewish ceremonies in Hebrew. Thus it is most likely that the first Mass was spoken in Hebrew. Hebrew was the English of its day in Israel, it was a common tongue.
Now, some traditionalists think that there is a magical power to Latin. I do not say this facetiously, however. They have attributed to Latin almost god-like powers. They say things such as: Ending the latin Mass caused the corruption of the Church, The Church was not ready for the changes, the changes were not natural, etc.
So the changes are now natural? After 40 years of the Novus Ordo we are to revert back to Latin?
I am sure this is what the traditionalists want.
Disobedience, Disobedience, Disobedience
I have talked to many people, including relatives, who would not attend Mass in the 90s because it was not in latin. Many people have been away from the Catholic Church for decades because of this. Mel Gibson is a person who is a Latin Mass onlier. As if the words in Latin alone, will save anyone.
This is, in large part, why we have the indult Latin Mass. Because Catholics have their affectations they may put before Christ. It seems sometimes Latin is their God, not the Hebrew-ceremony-performing Christ.
Obedience, Obedience, Obedience
Regardless of the translation, obedience to the current form of the Mass is paramount. Your heart is tested by your obedience. You desire what is good, when you have holiness within you. You desire what is bad, when you have sin dwelling within. Are you obedient, regardless?
Questions for Consideration:
- Do I put the Latin or English Mass before obedience to the Church and Christ?
- Do I insist on attending only a Latin Mass and will not attend an English Mass and vice-versa?
- Do I speak my mind about such things are Canon Law commands?
- Can I name five good things about the Novus Ordo (English Mass)?
- Can I name five good things about the Latin Mass?
- Can I resign myself to the will of God as manifested in the good of all peoples, before my preferences?
- Is Christ and his Church first, before all things in my life?
+Blessed by the Lord, in his angels, Novus Ordo Mass, Latin Mass and his Saints.
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